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	<title>Melroch @ Random &#187; grammar</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/grammar/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.melroch.se</link>
	<description>Random ideas and thoughts of Benct Philip Jonsson</description>
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			<item>
		<title>The embarrassing origins of Kijeb</title>
		<link>http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/the-embarrassing-origins-of-kijeb/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/the-embarrassing-origins-of-kijeb/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>melroch</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Conlanging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Language]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[grammar]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kijeb]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sohlob]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.melroch.se/?p=318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
As I wrote in the post on Kijeb verb inflection:




there is an enclitic marker -ya which is attached to a
non-animate agent NP of a higher- ranking patient (expressed or
unexpressed) or to an animate patient NP of a a
lower-ranking animate agent (which also may be unexpressed) &#8212; i.e.
it is a kind of inversion marker attached to [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span id="more-318"></span></p>

<p>As I wrote in the post on <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a> verb inflection:</p>

<blockquote><!--more-->


<p>there is an enclitic marker <em>-ya</em> which is attached to a
non-animate agent NP of a higher- ranking patient (expressed or
unexpressed) <em>or</em> to an animate patient NP of a a
lower-ranking animate agent (which also may be unexpressed) &#8212; i.e.
it is a kind of inversion marker attached to NPs. The
distributional pattern arises because it is attached to the &#8216;most
inverted participant&#8217; and it can only be assigned once. In practice
this means that since inanimates cannot be grammatical subjects but
are inflected in the instrumental case <em>-r</em> there arises a
virtual &#8216;ergative ending&#8217; <em>-rya</em> used when the agent is
inanimate and ranking lower than the patient, and a virtual
&#8216;accusative ending&#8217; <em>-ya</em> which is used on animate patients
when the agent is also animate and ranking lower than the patient.
Not surprisingly this is restructured into a split ergative case
marking system in the later <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/sohlob/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Sohlob">Sohlob</a> <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/languages/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Languages">languages</a>, so that they have</p>
<ul>
<li>
<p>an unmarked absolutive-nominative used for all patients of
inanimate agents, for inanimate patients of animate agents and for
animate agents.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>an ergative marked by <em>-Vl</em> (where /l/ is the regular
reflex of the [&#654;] /r&#690;/ //rj// of the <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a>
<em>-r-ya</em>) used for inanimate agents.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>an accusative marked by <em>-Vy</em> used for animate patients
of animate agents.</p>
</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>

<p>The external history of these endings is rather funny. The
<em>-l</em> derives from the pleonastic ending <em>-all</em> of
&#8220;all-spr&#229;ket&#8221;, the Swedish version of <a href=
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_Latin">Pig Latin</a>. In my first
naming playlanglang which I created when I was eleven or twelve
years old, and which derived a lot of words from Swedish, German
and English words by way of all-spr&#229;ket <em>-al</em> became a
&#8216;noun marker&#8217;. It was not long before I learnt of the English
version, Pig Latin, from my grandmother and took up the ending
<em>-ei</em> which became the ending for &#8216;things&#8217; &#8212; because it
&#8216;rimed&#8217; with <em>grej</em>, Swedish for &#8216;thingie&#8217; &#8212; while
<em>-al</em> remained the ending for &#8216;people&#8217;. Thus I introduced an
animacy distinction without really knowing what I was doing! When I
had got a bit better understanding of Swedish grammatical
terminology the &#8216;thing&#8217; category got renamed <em>neutrum</em> and
the &#8216;people&#8217; category got renamed <em>&#8216;utrum&#8217;</em>. Next when I
started to learn Latin <em>-al</em> became the masculine nominative
ending while <em>-ei</em> became the ending for the accusative
masculine and both cases in the neuter, much like <em>-us</em> and
<em>-um</em> in the Latin second declension. By then there also had
entered a genitive ending <em>-ar</em> (from Swedish <em>har</em>
&#8216;has&#8217;!) and a distinct feminine with endings identical to the
masculine, except that the vowel in each case was -i- (<em>-il, -i,
-ir</em> &#8212; German <em>sie</em> and <em>ihr</em> had
<em>everything</em> to do with it! :-) The plural <acronym title="By The Way">BTW</acronym> had the
endings m. <em>-an, -en, -ern</em>, f. <em>-in, -in, -irn</em>
while the neuter had no distinct plural like the majority of
Swedish neuters. There were locatives, allatives and ablatives
also, basically formed by adding <em>-s</em> to the nominative,
accusative and genitive respectively, but subject to some
Swedish-like sandhi which got expressed in the spelling:</p>

<table>
<tr class="header">
<th align="left" style="width: 7%;"></th>
<th align="left" style="width: 7%;">&#8216;woman&#8217;</th>
<th align="left" style="width: 7%;">&#8216;man&#8217;</th>
<th align="left" style="width: 7%;">&#8216;thing&#8217;</th>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td align="left">Sing.</td>
<td align="left"></td>
<td align="left"></td>
<td align="left"></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td align="left">nom.</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvil</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkval</td>
<td align="left">engtei</td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td align="left">acc.</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvi</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvei</td>
<td align="left">engtei</td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td align="left">gen.</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvir</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvar</td>
<td align="left">engtar</td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td align="left">loc.</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvich</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvach</td>
<td align="left">engtech</td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td align="left">all.</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvis</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkves</td>
<td align="left">engtes</td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td align="left">abl.</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvish</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvash</td>
<td align="left">engtesh</td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td align="left">Plur.</td>
<td align="left"></td>
<td align="left"></td>
<td align="left"></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td align="left">nom.</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvin</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvan</td>
<td align="left"></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td align="left">acc.</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvin</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkven</td>
<td align="left"></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td align="left">gen.</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvirn</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvarn</td>
<td align="left"></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td align="left">loc.</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvingch</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvangch</td>
<td align="left"></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td align="left">all.</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvings</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvengs</td>
<td align="left"></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td align="left">abl.</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvingsh</td>
<td align="left">&#244;lkvengsh</td>
<td align="left"></td>
</tr>
</table>

<p>The <em>sh</em> was because Swedish /rs/ is realized [&#642;]
and <em>ch</em> was because in the Bohusl&#228;n dialect /ls/ could
also be [&#642;] and I thought [l&#642;] when I said it sounded
like [&#597;] &#8212; I had unwittingly produced an [&#620;]!</p>

<p>To make a long story short I resurrected <em>-al</em> as an
ergative ending when I started <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/sohlob/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Sohlob">Sohlob</a> some fifteen years later, and
when I decided that <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/sohlob/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Sohlob">Sohlob</a> /l/ was from <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a> /rj/ the instrumental
<em>-r</em> sort of created itself. I was however long reluctant to
resurrect <em>-ei</em> by using <em>-ya</em> as the accusative
marker in <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a>, until I found a plausible explanation for how the
same element could create the accusative when added to the
absolutive and the ergative when added to the instrumental. I think
however that an involvement with inverse marking constitutes a
plausible explanation.</p>
	Tags: <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/topic/conlanging/" title="Conlanging" rel="tag">Conlanging</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/grammar/" title="grammar" rel="tag">grammar</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" title="Kijeb" rel="tag">Kijeb</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/topic/language/" title="Language" rel="tag">Language</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/sohlob/" title="Sohlob" rel="tag">Sohlob</a><br />

	<h4>Related posts</h4>
	<ul class="st-related-posts">
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/rhodrese-articles-and-indefinite-pronouns/" title="Rhodrese articles and indefinite pronouns (27 March, 2009)">Rhodrese articles and indefinite pronouns</a> (0)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/the-rhodrese-indefinite-article/" title="The Rhodrese indefinite article (8 April, 2009)">The Rhodrese indefinite article</a> (0)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/kijeb-verb-inflection/" title="Kijeb verb inflection (5 May, 2009)">Kijeb verb inflection</a> (0)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/deriving-nouns-from-verbs-and-the-word-amn/" title="Mærik: Deriving nouns from verbs and the word <em>amn</em> (5 May, 2009)">Mærik: Deriving nouns from verbs and the word <em>amn</em></a> (1)</li>
</ul>

]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Mærik: Deriving nouns from verbs and the word amn</title>
		<link>http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/deriving-nouns-from-verbs-and-the-word-amn/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/deriving-nouns-from-verbs-and-the-word-amn/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 19:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>melroch</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Conlanging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[grammar]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.melroch.se/?p=268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mærik also uses active/passive participles
as agent/patient nouns but it uses zero
derivation, i.e. just uses the participle as a
noun without further ado.  From the POW of Mærik
itself there is no &#8216;double meaning&#8217;; that
lekartan can or must sometimes be translated as
&#8216;the one who is speaking&#8217; and sometimes as &#8216;the
speaker&#8217; is a complication of English grammar
which is [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mærik also uses active/passive participles
as agent/patient nouns but it uses zero
derivation, i.e. just uses the participle as a
noun without further ado.  From the POW of Mærik
itself there is no &#8216;double meaning&#8217;; that
<em>lekartan</em> can or must sometimes be translated as
&#8216;the one who is speaking&#8217; and sometimes as &#8216;the
speaker&#8217; is a complication of English <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/grammar/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with grammar">grammar</a>
which is simply absent in Mærik <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/grammar/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with grammar">grammar</a>.<span id="more-268"></span></p>

<p>That <em>lekatan</em> can mean both &#8216;that which is spoken&#8217; and
&#8216;the one spoken to&#8217; is <acronym title="On the other hand">OTOH</acronym> a real ambiguity in
Mærik <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/grammar/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with grammar">grammar</a>.  It can however be disambiguated by
using a full relative clause for the former
meaning, if context doesn&#8217;t make things
sufficiently clear. <acronym title="By The Way">BTW</acronym> Mærik is like English in
that <em>-rt</em>, properly the active participle suffix
can be attached to a noun or adjective to get a
new noun or adjective meaning &#8216;someone who works
with/keeps/makes etc. X&#8217; as <em>quikert</em>
&#8216;goater/goat-herd&#8217; <em>jwart</em> /&#8217;ju:art/ &#8216;shoemaker&#8217;,
<em>amnort</em> &#8216;belittler&#8217; made from the words for
&#8216;goat, shoe, little&#8217;.  At the same time the
passive participle ending <em>-t</em> is also a general
ending for deriving adjectives from nouns, so
<em>amn</em> is &#8217; a little fellow, a halfling&#8217;, while
<em>amnot</em> is both the adjectives &#8216;small&#8217; and
&#8216;belittled&#8217;, the latter meaning normally being
disambiguated by the addition of a suitable noun,
pronoun or name in the instrumental, e.g. <em>amnot
Thormodh(o)gh</em> &#8216;belittled by Thormod&#8217;, <em>amnot
roogh</em> &#8216;belittled by him&#8217;.  The fly in the
ointment is that here is no verb <em>*amno</em>; there is
a verb <em>klæghia</em> &#8216;make small(er)&#8217; and an adjective
<em>grøt</em> &#8216;small&#8217;, but &#8216;belittle&#8217; is <em>tera amnot</em>,
literally &#8216;make belittled&#8217;.</p>

<p>It is still an open question if the people
referred to as <em>amnon</em> &#8216;the little fellows&#8217;,
probably the Mærik speakers, were actually
physically smaller than <em>verghen</em> &#8216;the big
fellows&#8217; or if it somehow has a meaning &#8216;the
belittled ones, the belittled people&#8217;.  It seems
pretty clear that they were an original people
pushed aside and enslaved by the <em>verghen</em>.  Other
terms for them are <em>døirt</em> &#8216;the plowers&#8217; for
<em>verghen</em> and (the more common) <em>tortullun</em> &#8216;the
mattockers&#8217; for <em>amnon</em>. <em>Amn</em> clearly had
negative connotations which <em>tortull</em> hadn&#8217;t. (<acronym title="By The Way">BTW</acronym>
<em>-ull</em> is another ending for deriving &#8216;man
associated with X&#8217; nouns. The difference is that
<em>-ull</em> makes predictions about the gender of the
person which <em>-rt</em> doesn&#8217;t.  The &#8216;feminines&#8217;
corresponding to <em>-ull</em> words are compounds with
<em>wan</em> &#8216;woman&#8217; and <em>men(n)</em> &#8216;girl&#8217;, e.g. <em>tortwan</em>
&#8216;hacker-woman&#8217;.)</p>
	Tags: <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/topic/conlanging/" title="Conlanging" rel="tag">Conlanging</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/grammar/" title="grammar" rel="tag">grammar</a><br />

	<h4>Related posts</h4>
	<ul class="st-related-posts">
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/rhodrese-articles-and-indefinite-pronouns/" title="Rhodrese articles and indefinite pronouns (27 March, 2009)">Rhodrese articles and indefinite pronouns</a> (0)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/the-rhodrese-indefinite-article/" title="The Rhodrese indefinite article (8 April, 2009)">The Rhodrese indefinite article</a> (0)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/kijeb-verb-inflection/" title="Kijeb verb inflection (5 May, 2009)">Kijeb verb inflection</a> (0)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/the-embarrassing-origins-of-kijeb/" title="The embarrassing origins of Kijeb (11 June, 2009)">The embarrassing origins of Kijeb</a> (0)</li>
</ul>

]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/deriving-nouns-from-verbs-and-the-word-amn/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>1</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Kijeb verb inflection</title>
		<link>http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/kijeb-verb-inflection/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/kijeb-verb-inflection/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 11:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>melroch</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Conlanging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[grammar]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kijeb]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.melroch.se/?p=249</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the shower one day I had a flash of inspiration
and finally knew how Kijeb tense-aspect-mood
marking should be organized.  I&#8217;ll try to manage
to describe it without access to my dictionary.

Many aspects (sic!) of the following wholly or
partly obsoletize things said on the Kijeb page
on FrathWiki.



The order of the markers (slots) are as follows:

Root-aspect-(inverse)-(mood)-(tense)-(person)-(person)


Items in [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the shower one day I had a flash of inspiration
and finally knew how <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a> tense-aspect-mood
marking should be organized.  I&#8217;ll try to manage
to describe it without access to my dictionary.</p>

<p>Many aspects (sic!) of the following wholly or
partly obsoletize things said on the <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a> page
on FrathWiki.</p>

<p><span id="more-249"></span></p>

<p>The order of the markers (slots) are as follows:</p>

<pre><code>Root-aspect-(inverse)-(mood)-(tense)-(person)-(person)
</code></pre>

<p>Items in parentheses may be absent/zero-marked.
Intransitive verbs have only one person marker
while a transitive verb has two, but one or both
of them may be zero-marked or haplologized.  When
there are two person markers their relative order
is determined by the animacy hierarchy as follows</p>

<pre><code>^
|
| First person
| Second person
| Third person animate (singular)
      | proximal
      | medial
      | distal
| (Third person animate plural)
      | proximal
      | medial
      | distal
| Third person inanimate (singular)
      | proximal
      | medial
      | distal
| (Third person inanimate plural)
      | proximal
      | medial
      | distal
|
v
</code></pre>

<p>so that markers for persons higher in the list
always precede markers for persons lower in the
list.  Which one is agent and patient is
signalled by the presence of the inverse marker if
the lower person is agent.</p>

<p>There is no Algonkian-style obviative marking if
both arguments are 3rd person animate, but there
is <a href="http://wiki.frath.net/Kijeb#Third_person_emphatic_pronouns">a system of free pronouns</a>
marked for increasing remoteness from the speaker.</p>

<p>I call them &#8220;proximal &#8212; medial &#8212; distal&#8221; and
translate them somewhat loosely as &#8216;this &#8212; that
&#8212; yon&#8217; (in German &#8216;der hier &#8212; der da &#8212; jener&#8217;.
In practice these can be used to serve obviation
in that they rank differently, as amended in the
list above.  They can also be used as a kind of
&#8216;articles&#8217; but what&#8217;s more any new referent is
automatically assigned a place in the proximal&#8212;
medial&#8212;distal hierarchy&#8217; so that an Algonkian
obviate will normally correspond to a <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a> distal
in relation to a medial corresponding to a non-
obviate or sometimes a <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a> medial <em>or</em> distal in
relation to a proximal corresponding to a non-
obviate.</p>

<p>Moreover there is an enclitic marker <em>-ya</em> which
is attached to a non-animate agent NP of a higher-
ranking patient (expressed or unexpressed) <em>or</em> to
an animate patient NP of a a lower-ranking animate
agent (which also may be unexpressed) &#8212; i.e. it
is a kind of inversion marker attached to NPs.
The distributional pattern arises because it is
attached to the &#8216;most inverted participant&#8217; and it
can only be assigned once.  In practice this means
that since inanimates cannot be grammatical
subjects but are inflected in the instrumental
case <em>-r</em> there arises a virtual &#8216;ergative ending&#8217;
<em>-rya</em> used when the agent is inanimate and
ranking lower than the patient, and a virtual
&#8216;accusative ending&#8217; <em>-ya</em> which is used on animate
patients when the agent is also animate and
ranking lower than the patient. Not surprisingly
this is restructured into a split ergative case
marking system in the later <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/sohlob/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Sohlob">Sohlob</a> <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/languages/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Languages">languages</a>, so
that they have</p>

<ul>
<li><p>an unmarked absolutive-nominative used for all
patients of inanimate agents, for inanimate
patients of animate agents and for animate
agents.</p></li>
<li><p>an ergative marked by <em>-Vl</em> (where /l/ is the
regular reflex of the [ʎ] /rʲ/ //rj// of the
<a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a> <em>-r-ya</em>) used for inanimate agents.</p></li>
<li><p>an accusative marked by <em>-Vy</em> used for animate
patients of animate agents.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>I&#8217;ve also finally determined that the word order
is verb initial.  The order of other constituents
is pretty free, since inverse marking on the verb
and distance marking on free pronouns generally
take care or sorting out agent-patient relations.
Quite possibly the slot after the verb is taken up
by the topic!</p>

<p>The verb-first rule is probably absolute.
The other constituents may follow in any order
except that the topic comes in the second place &#8212;
which incidentally helps alleviating the lack of
overt obviation marking, since the topic will
normally be the non-obviate!</p>

<p>I have long known that there are three different
verb stems, each formed by adding one of the three
vowels <em>-a- -i- -u-</em> to the root (in <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/sohlob/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Sohlob">Sohlob</a> these give
rise to alternations in the root vowel), and I
have known that these express distinctions of
aspect rather than of tense for almost as long.
Now I also know for sure what the aspects are,
namely:</p>

<ul>
<li>Punctual or instantaneous (<em>-a-</em>).</li>
<li>Progressive or durative (<em>-i-</em>).</li>
<li>Habitual (<em>-u-</em>).</li>
</ul>

<p>I don&#8217;t know if this is an odd bunch of aspects,
but I want to be a bit different.  Besides the
speakers of <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a> and <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/sohlob/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Sohlob">Sohlob</a> are perhaps not even
human.</p>

<p>The Punctual is somehow basic.  For example the
imperative coincides with the Punctual stem and
there is no such thing as a Progressive or
Habitual imperative.  It us likely that the <em>-i-</em>
and <em>-u-</em> aspect morphemes go back to some <em>-CV-</em>
form where the <em>C</em> was some palatalized consonant
for the Progressive marker and some labial or
labiovelar consonant for the Habitual marker.
Prehistorically <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a> verbs are marked by
concentration of stress on the root syllable and
loss of vowels in other syllables, with subsequent
sandhi effects on the resulting consonant
clusters, turning strings of tense, mood and
person markers into portamanteau morphs and/or
morphemes consisting only of consonants and with
several combinatory allomorphs. The
above-mentioned <em>-CV-</em> aspect markers would first
have fused with the stem-final <em>-a-</em> into
diphthongs <em>-ai-, -au-</em>, which then even later
were monophthongized to <em>-i-, -u-</em>, the forms seen
in <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a>. The net result is that for any <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a>
verb the aspect marker is a fused part of the
stem.</p>

<p>Not all verbs can form all three aspects. Verbs
which intrinsically express states for example can
only form the Habitual. Prehistorically there were
several morphemes added as prefixes (in <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a>
mostly fused with the root) and suffixes which
assign <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktionsart" target="_blank"  title="Aktionsart" >Aktionsart</a>, iterativity, inchoativity etc.
to the verb &#8212; semantics which restrict which
aspects a verb can form. For example iteratives
cannot be Punctual and inchoatives can only be
Progressive.  Sometimes different aspects encode
meanings which are lexicalized as different verbs
in European <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/languages/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Languages">languages</a>, such as Punctual &#8216;step&#8217; and
Progressive &#8216;walk&#8217;.</p>

<p>In pre-<a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a> these were a regular system of
prefixes and suffixes for Aktionsart, but the regular loss of
unstressed vowels in verb forms and subsequent
sandhi effects make the processes seem almost
suppletive in <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a>.  Consider what happens to the
cusative prefix <em>&#42;p-</em> when it &#8216;fuses&#8217; with different
root-initial consonants by following the <em>p</em> row
in the <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a> <a href="http://wiki.frath.net/Kijeb#Sandhi_table">sandhi table at FrathWiki</a></p>

<p>(Initial <em>mb</em> and <em>ñgw</em> aren&#8217;t possible, so they
become <em>m, ñw</em>!)</p>

<p>I now think that the punctual aspect
is actually zero-marked, while the habitual and
progressive in pre-<a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a> were marked by <em>-CV-</em>
syllables where the C was some voiced palatalized
consonant for the durative and some voiced labial
for the habitual, becoming <em>&#42;-yV-</em> and <em>&#42;-wV-</em> in the
first phase of vowel quashing and <em>-i-</em> and <em>-u-</em> in
the second phase.  The punctual <em>-a-</em> may have been
exapted back from forms where the present marker
became <em>-ar-</em>.  The imperative probably was special
because it was normally a full utterance in itself
and thus escaped vowel-quashing.  In any case the
reduction of the number of possible person
markings was as much a matter of restructuring as
of sound change.</p>

<p>As said above inverse, mood&#8217; tense and person
markers (in that order) are partly fused with each
other, so that not all the underlying morphemes
are overtly present in all forms.  Here there are
two important differences to what is currently
stated on the FrathWiki page:</p>

<ul>
<li>There are two tenses, present and non-present,
the present being marked by <em>-r-</em> (with
allomorphs <em>-ar-, -ir-, -ur-</em>) and <strong>the
non-present being unmarked</strong>.</li>
<li>There can be formed both present and
non-present irrealis forms.  NB that the
non-present irrealis would be appropriate to
translate both a past subjunctive and a future
indicative.  The irrealis has, especially with
the present, has a strong tone of evidentiality,
the irrealis being used for hearsay,
assumptions, reported information, reservation
etc.  Conversely the present realis has a rather
strong tone of assertion.</li>
</ul>

<p>There are three modes: indicative, imperative and
irrealis.  The imperative is &#8216;marked&#8217; by the
absence of TAM markers and the irrealis by a
morpheme.  All imperative and some irrealis forms
coincide with some other forms in the conjugation.
The indicative mood is unmarked.</p>

<p>The person markers are prehistorically derived
from the same pronominal roots which are used as
possessive suffixes <a href="http://wiki.frath.net/Kijeb#Personal_and_demonstrative_pronouns">as per the FrathWiki page</a></p>

<p>but were heavily transformed by automatic phonological
processes which affected the long final string of
consonants resulting from the draconic loss of
unstressed vowels in pre-<a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a> (actually the old
version of <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Kijeb">Kijeb</a>) verb forms.</p>

<ol>
<li>first loss of unstressed vowels</li>
<li>{mm, nn, ŋŋ, rr} > {mb, nd, ŋg, dr}</li>
<li>second loss of vowels (originally secondary
stressed)</li>
<li>the whole C(C&#8230;) string was devoiced</li>
<li>only coronals allowed as wordfinal consonants
and clusters: velars became coronals and
labials were lost except m > n.</li>
<li>tt > tst</li>
<li>{n, r, s} > {n̩, r̩, s̩} / C_C (including tst >
ts̩t!)</li>
<li>haplology</li>
<li>tst > st / {V, n̩, r̩, s̩}_ (i.e. when /s/ was
not [s̩])

<ol>
<li>{n̩, r̩, s̩} > {an, Vr, is}</li>
</ol></li>
</ol>

<p>All this leads to surface forms which can be
pretty ambiguous, with a good deal of isomorphy,
but in spite of this the language tries hard to
remain a pro-drop language. If however free
pronouns are present the verb still takes the
person endings, in spite of their originally being
cliticized pronouns.</p>

<p>The funny thing is that I had made up all the
phonological rules and their internal order beforehand.
The only innovation was the concentration of
stress on the verb root with subsequent loss of
vowels and voilà a dull agglutinative string of
enclitic morphemes was turned into something
interesting!</p>

<p>The syllabicization of  <em>-n-, -r-, -s-</em>, later resolving into a <em>-VC-</em> sequence,
when stranded between two consonants, is somewhat
more 
complicated than the above table suggests: <em>-n-</em> always
becomes <em>-an</em> and <em>-s-</em> always becomes <em>-is-</em>
and the inanimate person marker <em>-r-</em> always
becomes <em>-ur</em> but the present tense marker <em>-r-</em>
variably becomes <em>-ar-, -ir-, -ur-</em> depending on
the (original) features of surrounding sounds &#8212;
evidently a syllabic /r̩/ could be palatalized
/rʲ̩/ or labialized /rʷ̩/ in addition to plain.
The changes that applied were in order:</p>

<ul>
<li>The irrealis marker has several allophones
<em>-t-, -s-, -tis-</em> of which <em>-s-</em> coincides
with the inverse marker, which comes in the slot
before the irrealis marker, and the person
marker mentioned immediately below has identical
allophones, so that a surface form may be
ambiguous..</li>
<li>The first person singular, the first person
plural exclusive and the second person plural
are marked by identical forms <em>-t-, -s-, -tis-</em>
which also coincide with the forms of the
irrealis marker.</li>
<li>The secend person singular and the first person
plural inclusive are both marked by zero.</li>
<li><p>Third person markers distinguish between
singular and plural and between animate and
inanimate but not between the different
animate sub-genders masculine, feminine,
rational and irrational.  The markers are as
follows:</p>

<ul>
<li>Animate singular:   <em>-n</em>.</li>
<li>Animate plural:     <em>-nt, -ns-, -st-</em>.</li>
<li>Inanimate singular: <em>-ur</em>.</li>
<li>Inanimate plural:   <em>-tur</em>.</li>
</ul></li>
<li><p>When agent and patient belong to the same
gender and both are third person singular a
single ending corresponding to the plural of the
appropriate gender and person is used.</p></li>
<li>When both agent and patient are the same gender
and both are third person plural only a singel
plural ending of the appropriate gender is used.</li>
<li>There is a reflexive marker, the same for all
numbers and genders, which is also <em>-n</em>, but is
distinguished by always coming in the second
person marker slot while the animate singular
marker always comes in the first person marker
slot.  When a third person animate singular
agent acts on itself only a single <em>-n</em> appears
on the surface.</li>
</ul>

<p>These last three phenomena are what somewhat
inaccurately is referred to as &#42;haplologization&#42;.
It goes back to the fact that the third person plural forms are
historically reduplications of the singular forms,
so that e.g. <em>&#42;-na-na > &#42;-nna > &#42;-nda > &#42;-nd > -nt</em>
and <em>&#42;-ru-ru > &#42;-rru > &#42;-dru > &#42;-drʷ >
&#42;-trʷ >
-tur</em>.  The list of &#8220;third persen enclitic
pronouns&#8221; &#8212; now actually possessive suffixes &#8212;
makes this clear.</p>

<p>All this leads to surface forms which can be
pretty ambiguous, but in spite of this the
language tries hard to remain a pro-drop language.
If however free pronouns are present the verb
still takes the person endings, in spite of their
originally being cliticized pronouns.</p>

<p><acronym title="By The Way">BTW</acronym> I&#8217;ve decided to change the sandhi rules
somewhat: <em>&#42;pp</em> and <em>&#42;kk</em> now give <em>f</em> and <em>x</em>.</p>
	Tags: <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/topic/conlanging/" title="Conlanging" rel="tag">Conlanging</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/grammar/" title="grammar" rel="tag">grammar</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/kijeb/" title="Kijeb" rel="tag">Kijeb</a><br />

	<h4>Related posts</h4>
	<ul class="st-related-posts">
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/rhodrese-articles-and-indefinite-pronouns/" title="Rhodrese articles and indefinite pronouns (27 March, 2009)">Rhodrese articles and indefinite pronouns</a> (0)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/the-rhodrese-indefinite-article/" title="The Rhodrese indefinite article (8 April, 2009)">The Rhodrese indefinite article</a> (0)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/deriving-nouns-from-verbs-and-the-word-amn/" title="Mærik: Deriving nouns from verbs and the word <em>amn</em> (5 May, 2009)">Mærik: Deriving nouns from verbs and the word <em>amn</em></a> (1)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/the-embarrassing-origins-of-kijeb/" title="The embarrassing origins of Kijeb (11 June, 2009)">The embarrassing origins of Kijeb</a> (0)</li>
</ul>

]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/kijeb-verb-inflection/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>The Rhodrese indefinite article</title>
		<link>http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/the-rhodrese-indefinite-article/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/the-rhodrese-indefinite-article/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>melroch</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Conlanging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[grammar]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rhodrese]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.melroch.se/?p=195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On Conlang Herrig Thaill&#237; (Henrik Theilling) wrote in response to me:



I&#8217;m ATM in woes WRT the Rhodrese indefinite article. I feel that the changes I&#8217;ve made to the feminine indefinite and plural definite forms call for a change in the plural indefinite as well. Consider the following patterns:



masc. sing.
fem. sing.
plur.



_#C
_#V
_#C
_#V
_#C
_#V


def.
el
el
la
l&#8217;
li
gl&#8217;


indef.
un
un
na
n&#8217;
eun
eun


OR



masc. sing.
fem. sing.
plur.



_#C
_#V
_#C
_#V
_#C
_#V


def.
el
el
la
l&#8217;
li
gl&#8217;


indef.
un
un
na
n&#8217;
ni
gn&#8217;


Is the latter preferable [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On <a href="http://archives.conlang.info" title="The Conlang mailing list archive">Conlang</a> <em>Herrig Thaill&#237;</em> (Henrik Theilling) wrote in response to me:</p>

<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m ATM in woes WRT the <acronym title="One of my conlangs, the language of Borgonze — Burgundy in my ATL Lucus"><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/rhodrese/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Rhodrese">Rhodrese</a></acronym> indefinite article. I feel that the changes I&#8217;ve made to the feminine indefinite and plural definite forms call for a change in the plural indefinite as well. Consider the following patterns:</p>
<table>
<tr class="header">
<th align="left" style="width: 6%;"></th>
<th align="left" colspan="2" style="width: 12%;">masc. sing.</th>
<th align="left" colspan="2" style="width: 12%;">fem. sing.</th>
<th align="left" colspan="2" style="width: 12%;">plur.</th>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<th align="left"></th>
<th align="left">_#C</th>
<th align="left">_#V</th>
<th align="left">_#C</th>
<th align="left">_#V</th>
<th align="left">_#C</th>
<th align="left">_#V</th>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<th align="left">def.</td>
<td align="left">el</td>
<td align="left">el</td>
<td align="left">la</td>
<td align="left">l&#8217;</td>
<td align="left">li</td>
<td align="left">gl&#8217;</td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<th align="left">indef.</td>
<td align="left">un</td>
<td align="left">un</td>
<td align="left">na</td>
<td align="left">n&#8217;</td>
<td align="left">eun</td>
<td align="left">eun</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p>OR</p>
<table>
<tr class="header">
<th align="left" style="width: 6%;"></th>
<th align="left" colspan="2" style="width: 12%;">masc. sing.</th>
<th align="left" colspan="2" style="width: 12%;">fem. sing.</th>
<th align="left" colspan="2" style="width: 12%;">plur.</th>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td align="left"></td>
<td align="left">_#C</td>
<td align="left">_#V</td>
<td align="left">_#C</td>
<td align="left">_#V</td>
<td align="left">_#C</td>
<td align="left">_#V</td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<th align="left">def.</td>
<td align="left">el</td>
<td align="left">el</td>
<td align="left">la</td>
<td align="left">l&#8217;</td>
<td align="left">li</td>
<td align="left">gl&#8217;</td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<th align="left">indef.</td>
<td align="left">un</td>
<td align="left">un</td>
<td align="left">na</td>
<td align="left">n&#8217;</td>
<td align="left">ni</td>
<td align="left">gn&#8217;</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p>Is the latter preferable or am I over-regularizing?</p>
<p>NB <em>eun</em> would still mean &#8216;some, a few&#8217;, while <em>aoc&#250;</em> means &#8216;some, any&#8217; and <em>naoc&#250;</em> means &#8216;not any, none&#8217;.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>My gut feeling for Rhodese is that the first alternative is more like it. It has that nice vowel change. And the system should not be made too regular I think.</p>
</blockquote>

<p><span id="more-195"></span></p>

<p>That&#8217;s exacly what one part of me is saying, but I&#8217;m not qute sure that the language doesn&#8217;t want otherwise&#8230;</p>

<blockquote>
<p>Note that my answer disregards any aspect but aesthetics, because I basically have no idea how the modern words are derived exactly and why you would think you&#8217;re overgeneralising in the second alternative.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The basic idea is that since the forms of <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">ille</span> which ended in a long vowel developed forms stressed on the ending, why could not the forms of <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">unus</span> do the same? There are essentially two objections:</p>

<ol style="list-style-type: decimal;">
<li><span style="font-variant: small-caps;">unus</span> probably became an indefinite article much later than <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">ille</span> became a definite article, and so should not develop in parallel with it.</li>
<li><span style="font-variant: small-caps;">&#363;nus</span> had a long vowel in the first syllable, which would be a stress attractor.</li>
</ol>

<p>Contra objection 1. can be said that the field should be rife for analogies with the definite article.</p>

<p>Contra objection 2. can be said that <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">ille</span> also began with a heavy syllable, due to the double <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">ll</span>.</p>

<p>In fact I suspect that one factor which made the ending-stressed forms of <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">ille</span> arise in the first place may have been the way assignment of secondary stress affected them once they became proclitic. Recall that secondary stress in Latin apparently tended to fall on every second syllable before the main stress:</p>

<pre>
<code>ˌin-cre-ˈdi-bi-lis
</code>
</pre>

<p>apparently a first syllable immediately before the stressed syllable received a secondary stress even though no unstressed syllable intervened:</p>

<pre>
<code>ˌcre-ˈdi-bi-lis
</code>
</pre>

<p>but I think that a first syllable of a word with three syllables before the stressed syllable (which was uncommon in Latin) did not, or at least did not always receive secondary stress, or attract it from the following syllable:</p>

<pre>
<code>pe-ˌrin-cre-ˈdi-bi-lis
</code>
</pre>

<p>At least that seems to be the pattern which seems to apply in modern Italian.</p>

<p>Now consider what would happen when the disyllabic forms of <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">ille</span> were procliticized to words stressed on the first and second syllable respectively:</p>

<pre>
<code>ˌil-la-ˈta-bu-la
</code>
</pre>

<p>but</p>

<pre>
<code>il-ˌla-ta-ˈber-na
</code>
</pre>

<p>The nominative singular masculine apparently got special treatment. The short unstressed final <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">&#277;</span> must have been prone to disappear for its own reasons as part of the cliticization process; probably it was already [ə] already and could not receive contextual stress. Whatever the particular reason we get</p>

<pre>
<code>ˌil-ca-ˈbal-lus
</code>
</pre>

<p>as well as</p>

<pre>
<code>ˌil-ˈpa-tre
</code>
</pre>

<p>(NB French <em>le cheval, le p&#232;re</em> are from the accusative with <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">illum</span> &#8212; it was still <em>lo</em> in Old French.)</p>

<p>Now what I think happened nect was that the unstressed initial vowel in <em>il-ˌla-ta-ˈber-na</em> fell off, giving <em>ˌla-ta-ˈber-na</em>, and the thus arisen allomorph <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">la</span> was later generalized to all cases. Actually I think the burden of proof rests on those who would claim that forms of <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">ille</span> received stress on the endings in some other way!</p>

<p>Finally even if the &#8216;articulization&#8217; of <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">unus</span> was later it shared two important features with <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">ille</span>: it was disyllabic and it began with a vowel, which in Vulgar Latin was just as short as <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">i</span> in <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">ille</span> in proclitic position. To be sure <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">unus caballus</span> would not regularly become <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">un caballus</span> but rather <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">*nus caballus</span> according to my theory above, but <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">unus pater</span> <em>would</em> become <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">un(u)s pater</span> and in the accusative <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">unu patre</span> with stress on <em>un</em> and <em>pa</em>, and analogy with the definite article could take care of the rest.</p>

<blockquote>
<p>Note that I really miss the <em>u</em> in some of the indefinite articles. For me, <em>u</em> is the essence of that article, not <em>n</em>, but of course, that&#8217;s pure aesthetics again. :-) Maybe that&#8217;s why I like <em>eun</em> more than <em>ni</em>. (Terkunan has <em>nus</em> with an <em>u</em>&#8230;)</p>
</blockquote>

<p>To me the essence of the Romance definite article is <em>l</em>, yet look at Portuguese and the Italian masculine plural! :-)</p>

<p>There would be some factors in <acronym title="One of my conlangs, the language of Borgonze — Burgundy in my ATL Lucus"><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/rhodrese/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Rhodrese">Rhodrese</a></acronym> which could tip the scales towards the <em>n</em>-based forms: the regular Old <acronym title="One of my conlangs, the language of Borgonze — Burgundy in my ATL Lucus"><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/rhodrese/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Rhodrese">Rhodrese</a></acronym> reflex of <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">*uni</span> before a pause or a fricative would be <em>*eu</em>, but that would be homophonous with <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">habes</span> &#8216;thou hast&#8217;, which probably would favor forms with preserved <em>n</em> &#8212; though that may just as well be <em>eun</em>, so that&#8217;s another matter. However there is one possibility which I imagine could have happened in some Romance natlang somewhere, though I never heard of it, namely that <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">&#363;nus</span> got reanalysed as <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">&#365;nnus</span> on analogy with <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">ille</span> &#8212; that would both explain <acronym title="One of my conlangs, the language of Borgonze — Burgundy in my ATL Lucus"><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/rhodrese/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Rhodrese">Rhodrese</a></acronym> stressed forms with <em>-n</em> and encourage total analogy with <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">&#301;lle</span> as per above. I guess compound forms like <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">quisque-cata-unus</span> and <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">aliqui-unus</span> could might be exempt from this and keep single <em>*-n</em> which would then be lost before a pause or a fricative as usual in <acronym title="One of my conlangs, the language of Borgonze — Burgundy in my ATL Lucus"><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/rhodrese/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Rhodrese">Rhodrese</a></acronym><a href="#fn1" class="footnoteRef" id="fnref1" name="fnref1"><sup>1</sup></a>.</p>

<p>I need to sort out the possible r&#244;le of pronominal <em>eun</em>. Your overview of Spanish indefinite pronouns will be most helpful! Now if I could only find that French <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/grammar/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with grammar">grammar</a>&#8230;</p>

<p><acronym title="By The Way">BTW</acronym> the name of the language is <em>Rhod</em>rese with a <em>dr</em> in the middle &#8212; it derives from <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">Rh&#243;danus</span> <em>Rhuodre</em> &#8216;Rh&#244;ne&#8217; and has nothing to do with Rhodes <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">Rhodus</span> <em>Rhuod</em>, although the names end up similar. I used to have a list of other words with <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">d&#8217;n</span> &gt; <em>dr</em> somewhere. Primary <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">dr</span> of course becomes <em>rr</em>, as does <em>nr</em>.</p>

<div class="footnotes">
<hr />
<ol>
<li id="fn1">
<p>I operate with the hopefully plausible assumption that before a stop there was free variation between</p>
<pre>
<code>  nasalized vowel + nasal + stop
</code>
</pre>
<p>and</p>
<pre>
<code>  nasalized vowel + stop
</code>
</pre>
<p>where the vowel nasalization would later get lost, which gives quite some room for variation in resulting forms in standard modern <acronym title="One of my conlangs, the language of Borgonze — Burgundy in my ATL Lucus"><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/rhodrese/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Rhodrese">Rhodrese</a></acronym> where word boundaries are involved. <a href="#fnref1" class="footnoteBackLink" title="Jump back to footnote 1">&#8617;</a></p>
</li>
</ol>
</div>
	Tags: <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/topic/conlanging/" title="Conlanging" rel="tag">Conlanging</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/grammar/" title="grammar" rel="tag">grammar</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/rhodrese/" title="Rhodrese" rel="tag">Rhodrese</a><br />

	<h4>Related posts</h4>
	<ul class="st-related-posts">
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/rhodrese-articles-and-indefinite-pronouns/" title="Rhodrese articles and indefinite pronouns (27 March, 2009)">Rhodrese articles and indefinite pronouns</a> (0)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/kijeb-verb-inflection/" title="Kijeb verb inflection (5 May, 2009)">Kijeb verb inflection</a> (0)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/deriving-nouns-from-verbs-and-the-word-amn/" title="Mærik: Deriving nouns from verbs and the word <em>amn</em> (5 May, 2009)">Mærik: Deriving nouns from verbs and the word <em>amn</em></a> (1)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/rhodrese-will-still-be-rhodrese/" title="Rhodrese will still be Rhodrese! (31 October, 2009)">Rhodrese will still be Rhodrese!</a> (0)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/the-embarrassing-origins-of-kijeb/" title="The embarrassing origins of Kijeb (11 June, 2009)">The embarrassing origins of Kijeb</a> (0)</li>
</ul>

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		<title>Rhodrese articles and indefinite pronouns</title>
		<link>http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/rhodrese-articles-and-indefinite-pronouns/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/rhodrese-articles-and-indefinite-pronouns/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>melroch</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Conlanging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[drafts]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.melroch.se/?p=48</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some while ago I had to change my mind on the
shape of the plural definite article in Rhodrese.
Ever since the inception of the lang I&#8217;d thought
the plural definite article was il, but with the
rule that unstressed e and unstressed i are
pronounced alike as [ɪ] a
plural il would be homophonous with the
masculine el, and I can [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some while ago I had to change my mind on the
shape of the plural definite article in <acronym title="One of my conlangs, the language of Borgonze — Burgundy in my ATL Lucus"><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/rhodrese/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Rhodrese">Rhodrese</a></acronym>.
Ever since the inception of the lang I&#8217;d thought
the plural definite article was <em>il</em>, but with the
rule that unstressed <em>e</em> and unstressed <em>i</em> are
pronounced alike as <span class="IPA">[ɪ]</span> a
plural <em>il</em> would be homophonous with the
masculine <em>el</em>, and I can clearly not have that!
Better then to have the plural article as <em>li</em>,
with the prepositions + article contractions
becoming <em>dilli, alli, polli</em> etc. Needless to say
the plural article before words beginning in a
vowel remains <em>gl&#8217;</em>.</p>

<p>This also offers a clue to the demise of distinct
feminine forms, for surely the feminine plural
article was originally <em>le</em> but became homophonous
with the masculine <em>li</em>. The abolition of <em>le</em> was
surely one of Bernual&#8217;s reforms.</p>

<p><span id="more-48"></span></p>

<p>However this rises the question whether the plural
indefinite article should be <em>ni</em> with an old
feminine <em>ne</em>, and a prevocalic <em>gn&#8217;</em> I think it&#8217;s
possible unless <span style="font-variant:
small-caps;">neque</span> becomes <span
class="IPA">[nɪ]</span>, and I think it becomes
<em>nec</em>! &#8216;Not&#8217; also most likely does not become <em>ne</em>
<span class="IPA">[nɪ]</span> but <em>no</em> <span
class="IPA">[nʊ]</span>, with &#8216;no&#8217; being <em>nó</em>
<span class="IPA">[no]</span> or even <em>nau</em>.</p>

<p>The form <em>eun</em> can live on with the meaning
&#8216;some&#8217;, with <em>n&#8217;eu(n)</em> meaning &#8216;not any&#8217; as in <em>Tu
tin eun menit? &#8212; Nó jo no tien n&#8217;eu.</em> &#8220;Have you
got some coins? &#8212; No I haven&#8217;t got any&#8221;. Of
course there will also be <em>aocú &#8212; aocune &#8212; eochéu</em> for
&#8216;some&#8217; in the sense where it can&#8217;t be replaced by
&#8216;any&#8217;: <em>Txi daift estre aocun&#8217; explanaçáu!</em></p>

<p>/BP 8^)></p>
	Tags: <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/topic/conlanging/" title="Conlanging" rel="tag">Conlanging</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/drafts/" title="drafts" rel="tag">drafts</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/grammar/" title="grammar" rel="tag">grammar</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/languages/" title="Languages" rel="tag">Languages</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/romlangs/" title="romlangs" rel="tag">romlangs</a><br />

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