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	<title>Melroch @ Random &#187; Northern Romance</title>
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	<description>Random ideas and thoughts of Benct Philip Jonsson</description>
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		<title>Northern Romance chronology and phonology</title>
		<link>http://blog.melroch.se/alternate-history/northern-romance-chronology-and-phonology/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.melroch.se/alternate-history/northern-romance-chronology-and-phonology/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>melroch</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Alternate history]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mundus Germaniae Romanae]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Northern Romance]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[phonology]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.melroch.se/?p=22</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Date of the Gallo-Romance/Northern Romance POD.

IMHO the 2nd century is too late a date for the Gallo-Rmc.-NRmc.
divergence. It is important to remember that two dialect
areas which remain in contact with each other don&#8217;t break,
but rather slide apart. Moreover I think we want Germanic
phonology to have an influence from the outset, since
that&#8217;s rather the idea with [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<h2>Date of the Gallo-Romance/<a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/northern-romance/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Northern Romance">Northern Romance</a> <abbr title="Point of Divergence"><acronym title="Point Of Divergence">POD</acronym></abbr>.</h2>

<p><acronym title="In my humble opinion">IMHO</acronym> the 2nd century is too late a date for the Gallo-<acronym title="Romance (language(s))">Rmc</acronym>.-NRmc.
divergence. It is important to remember that two dialect
areas which remain in contact with each other don&#8217;t break,
but rather slide apart. Moreover I think we want Germanic
<a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/phonology/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with phonology">phonology</a> to have an influence from the outset, since
that&#8217;s rather the idea with a substrate: when a language
spreads into an area where it wasn&#8217;t spoken before the
first generation will speak it with a broken accent, part
of which will transfer to the native accent of the second
and third generations. Also there is no need to assume that
all <abbr title="Gallicanus 'pertaining to the Romans of Gaul'"><acronym title="Pertaining to the Romans, or Latin, in Gaul">Gallican</acronym></abbr> innovations during the first century spread
into Germania.</p>

<p><span id="more-22"></span></p>

<p>So we have some &#8216;<abbr title="'pertaining to the Romans of Germania'."><acronym title="Pertaining to the Romans, or Latin, in Germania (in MGR)">Germanican</acronym></abbr>&#8217;<sup id="fnref:Germanican"><a href="#fn:Germanican" rel="footnote">1</a></sup> innovations right
from the outset and some <abbr title="Gallicanus 'pertaining to the Romans of Gaul'"><acronym title="Pertaining to the Romans, or Latin, in Gaul">Gallican</acronym></abbr> innovations which do reach
Germania as well as some which don&#8217;t. To a degree this means
that we can pick and choose, but in so doing we should keep
an eye on what was universal <abbr title="Vulgar Latin"><acronym title="Vulgar Latin">VL</acronym></abbr>, what was only Western
Romance and what was only <abbr title="Gallicanus 'pertaining to the Romans of Gaul'"><acronym title="Pertaining to the Romans, or Latin, in Gaul">Gallican</acronym></abbr>.</p>

<p>Also the Germanic substrate would not be common Germanic
anymore, but Early West Germanic. Some changes like
rhotacism, the loss of -z and gemination before *j may
probably be under way already. Which means that Latin [z]
from simple /s/ between vowels will probably be equated with
substrate voiceless [s] as Scandinavians do to this day.</p>

<p>The two changes which are most pan-Romance are of course the
reorganisation of the vowel system and the palatalization of
velars and dentals. As an allophonic process the latter may
indeed be of indefinite antiquity. compared to that the
palatalization of labials is a purely <abbr title="Gallicanus 'pertaining to the Romans of Gaul'"><acronym title="Pertaining to the Romans, or Latin, in Gaul">Gallican</acronym></abbr> thing, and
possibly also rather late, since no tell-tale misspellings
are known from imperial age inscriptions <acronym title="As far as I know">AFAIK</acronym>. So I think
/pj bj mj/ can stand, and later develop into /pp bb mm/ as
they would in West Germanic — /L/ and /J/ would probably
also be equated with substrate /lj nj/ and develop into /ll
nn/. I wouldn&#8217;t even rule out that /tj/ and /kj/ be treated
as long and hence different from short /k/ / _{e, i} — cf.
how they are treated in Italian, though given the <abbr title="Gallicanus 'pertaining to the Romans of Gaul'"><acronym title="Pertaining to the Romans, or Latin, in Gaul">Gallican</acronym></abbr>
/k;/ &gt; /t;/ development CJ would perhaps merge with TJ, but
this merged /tt;/ might stay distinct from simplex /t;/  k; &gt; ts; &gt; ts_m (&gt;
s_m) &gt; [T], but the geminate remains long and ultimately is
treated like West Germ. *tj/tt.</p>

<p>PGmc. The /s/ is [s_a], so
&gt; I suppose to be ultra precise I should list WRom [s_m] &gt;
&gt; NRom [s_a].</p>

<p>That&#8217;s not a mere nitpick, since [s_a] is more [S]-like and
[s_m] is more [T]-like. In fact in modern Icelandic &#8220;/T/&#8221;
is [s_m] and &#8220;/s/&#8221; is [s_a], both alveolar. It is known
that in the history of Spanish the following series of
changes took place:</p>

<ul>
<li>s &gt; s_a</li>
<li>&gt; z_a &gt; s_a</li>
<li>k&#8217;, kj, tj &gt; ts_m &gt; s_m &gt; T</li>
<li>k&#8217; &gt; dz_m &gt; z_m &gt; s_m &gt; T</li>
<li>g&#8217;, j &gt; dZ &gt; S &gt; x</li>
<li>S &gt; x</li>
</ul>

<p>and it is believed that Old French had a similar situation,
although there /s_a/ and /s_m/ merged with each other
instead, and likewise with /z_a/ and /z_m/.</p>

<p>So we can be quite assured that at some time <acronym title="Our/Ordinary TimeLine">OTL</acronym> Western
Romance had the following sibilant system:</p>

<table>
<thead>
<tr>
  <th>Laminals</th>
  <th>Apicals</th>
  <th>Palatal<br />affricates</th>
  <th>Palatal</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
  <td>ts_m</td>
  <td>s_a</td>
  <td>(tS)</td>
  <td>S</td>
</tr>
<tr>
  <td>dz_m</td>
  <td>z_a</td>
  <td>dZ</td>
  <td>(Z)</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>

<p>where the parenthesized items were either rare or lacking in
some areas.</p>

<p>Comparing this to the pre-West Germanic fricatives system
I&#8217;d not be the least surprised if Germans learning Gallo-
Romance would equate the foreign [ts_m] with their [T],
especially if there wasn&#8217;t yet any /ts/ in their Germanic
language. The biggest problem to me is what they&#8217;d make of
[S]. There was perhaps no x to equate it with any more,
since Old High German consistently keeps /h/ from Germanic
*x and /x/ from Germanic *k distinct, in which case I&#8217;d have
[S] merge with /s_a/ in substratization. <acronym title="On the other hand">OTOH</acronym> with a time of
contact as early as the first century I&#8217;d slate [S] to be
equated with *x and then develop to a /h/ distinct from the
lost Latin *h.</p>

<p>I have wondered for long how k&#8217; merged with tj in Gallo-
and Ibero-Romance and come to the conclusion that it was
<em>not</em> via a progression k; &gt; c &gt; tS &gt; ts but rather that k&#8217;
merged with tj directly. It is believable in that at least
to the naked ear the two palatalized sounds k&#8217; and t&#8217; sound
much more similar to each other than the non-palatalized k
and t. But how come then that when g&#8217; and d&#8217; merge they
both become /dZ/ and not both /dz/? Perhaps simply because
d&#8217; was so infrequent to begin with? The variant spellings
DAZA and DAIA for the same name suggest that merger in some
direction did happen. An older generation of Romanists
thought that g&#8217; in all positions went through a [j] stage
before becoming /dZ/, and that this together with a
prestige pronunciation of the letter <em>z</em> as d&#8217; worked
against a merger. It is notable that the lenited reflex of
k&#8217; is <em>dz</em> but that of g&#8217; is [j]!</p>

<p>I wonder how Romance lengthening of vowels in stressed
open syllables — in Iberian of all stressed vowels —
and subsequent diphthongization would affect Northern
Romance. The rising diphthongization of low mid [E:] and
[O:] to /ie/ and /uo/ or similar is well nigh universal in
Romance, but Old French also had high mid [e:] and [o:]
become /ei/ and /ou/. Since <abbr title="Old High German">OHG</abbr> had both types of
diphthong it is tempting to copy the Old French pattern in
<a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/northern-romance/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Northern Romance">Northern Romance</a>. <acronym title="On the other hand">OTOH</acronym> Germanic had a very different vowel
system from the <abbr title="Vulgar Latin"><acronym title="Vulgar Latin">VL</acronym></abbr> one, so that it seems moot whether
<a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/northern-romance/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with Northern Romance">Northern Romance</a> would preserve the distinction between
two heights of mid vowels or merge them in the first
place. Of course New High <abbr title="'pertaining to the Romans of Germania'."><acronym title="Pertaining to the Romans, or Latin, in Germania (in MGR)">Germanican</acronym></abbr> would still acquire
<em>ei</em> and <em>au</em> from diphthongization of /i:/ and /u:/ at a
later time. It is also moot whether open syllable
lengthening would produce any minimal pairs. In <acronym title="One of my conlangs, the language of Borgonze — Burgundy in my ATL Lucus">Rhodrese</acronym> I
created at least the potential by letting open syllable
lengthening precede syncope.</p>

<div class="footnotes">
<hr />
<ol>

<li id="fn:Germanican">
<p>&#8216;pertaining to the Romans of Germania&#8217;. This
 is unattested, but analogous to <em>Africanus</em> &#8216;pertaining to
 the Romans of Africa&#8217;, <em>Gallicanus</em> &#8216;pertaining to the
 Romans of Gaul&#8217;.&#160;<a href="#fnref:Germanican" rev="footnote">&#8617;</a></p>
</li>

</ol>
</div>
	Tags: <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/topic/alternate-history/" title="Alternate history" rel="tag">Alternate history</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/topic/alternate-history/mundus-germaniae-romanae/" title="Mundus Germaniae Romanae" rel="tag">Mundus Germaniae Romanae</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/northern-romance/" title="Northern Romance" rel="tag">Northern Romance</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/phonology/" title="phonology" rel="tag">phonology</a><br />

	<h4>Related posts</h4>
	<ul class="st-related-posts">
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/alternate-history/mundus-germaniae-romanae/mgr-northern-romance/" title="MGR-Northern Romance (30 January, 2008)">MGR-Northern Romance</a> (2)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/conlanging/rhodrese-will-still-be-rhodrese/" title="Rhodrese will still be Rhodrese! (31 October, 2009)">Rhodrese will still be Rhodrese!</a> (0)</li>
</ul>

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