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	<title>Melroch @ Random &#187; Roman althistory</title>
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	<description>Random ideas and thoughts of Benct Philip Jonsson</description>
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		<title>Thoughts on Mundus Germaniae Romanae</title>
		<link>http://blog.melroch.se/alternate-history/thoughts-on-mundus-germaniae-romanae/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.melroch.se/alternate-history/thoughts-on-mundus-germaniae-romanae/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>melroch</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Alternate history]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mundus Germaniae Romanae]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[MGR]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Roman althistory]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.melroch.se/?p=13</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course each of us — and I&#8217;d love to recruit more —
should work on their own language(s) and be free to make
their own decisions. Likewise with the alternative history.
The thing about having a shared alternative world is not to
take all decisions by committee — that would rather ruin
the fun — but to ping-pong ideas [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course each of us — and I&#8217;d love to recruit more —
should work on their own language(s) and be free to make
their own decisions. Likewise with the alternative history.
The thing about having a shared alternative world is not to
take all decisions by committee — that would rather ruin
the fun — but to ping-pong ideas about the various
mighthavebeens. <acronym title="In my humble opinion">IMHO</acronym> it is not even necessary to nail down
what &#8216;actually&#8217; happened in the <acronym title="Alternate TimeLine">ATL</acronym> or get as full a
picture of the world. After all the whole idea with ATLs is
that time forks continually. Actually I think the most
interesting results are reached with small occasional
divergences from <acronym title="Our/Ordinary TimeLine">OTL</acronym>, rather than big and drastic ones. It
is tempting to try to set history right in an <acronym title="Alternate TimeLine">ATL</acronym>, but it
seldom leads to the most interesting, or believable,
results since real history tends to be so very more complex
than imagination can come up with.</p>

<p>The funny thing is that an earlier Roman split-up with less
internal strife for supremacy might have made each part more
consolidated and able to resist barbarian invasions, as well
as given the barbarians less room for playing out different
emperors against each other as Alaric did with such skill. A
more advanced border to begin with in Germany would of
course have meant fever barbarians to deal with, since
Franks, Longobards and Alamans would have been Romans
already! Still eastern Suebians, Goths, Huns and Vandals
might have done their thing much like in <acronym title="Our/Ordinary TimeLine">OTL</acronym>.</p>

<p><span id="more-13"></span></p>

<p>Indeed there need not be any difference at all in Roman
history before the Constantinians<sup id="fnref:Constantinians"><a href="#fn:Constantinians" rel="footnote">1</a></sup>, except
for the different outcome in Germania late in the reign of
Augustus. Indeed nothing need go different even if the
border Julian had to defend had been the Elbe rather than
the Rhine, except that the Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britain
and the Longobard one of Italy would never have happened,
and of course that Germany and Britain would have been Romance-
speaking! But what, then might have caused a Romance
language on an Anglic substrate to be spoken in Britain? A
large number of Germanic troops in Roman Britain might of
course do the trick with minimal difference in the course of
history. But the idea of a breakaway pagan-reactionary
Julian empire in Germany which expells its Christians, with
those from the north going to Britain, is alluring!</p>

<p>Surely if the West Germanic tribes had been Romanized that
would have reduced the extent and range of the migrations.
True the Goths and Vandals of <acronym title="Our/Ordinary TimeLine">OTL</acronym> toured almost all of the
Roman world <em>except</em> northern Gaul which was only invaded
over the Rhine ny the Franks and Burgundians. A more
easterly border and Romanized West Germanians would surely
mean that only the East Germanians would have migrated.
Perhaps the Burgundians and Gepids would have ended up in
Roman Germania, but likely they&#8217;d become Romanized in speech
like the Franks in Gaul in <acronym title="Our/Ordinary TimeLine">OTL</acronym>.</p>

<p>Gaul remains the most important Roman successor state in the
West, largely untouched by invasions. Unlike <acronym title="Our/Ordinary TimeLine">OTL</acronym> the south
remains or becomes dominant. In <acronym title="Mundus Germaniae Romanae"><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/mgr/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with MGR">MGR</a></acronym> Gaul Tolosa is the place
to be and the Oc language (GALLIENSEM &gt;&#160;? or GALLICANUM &gt;&#160;?)
the one to speak. The Northern speech, nowise called French
in <acronym title="Mundus Germaniae Romanae"><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/mgr/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with MGR">MGR</a></acronym>, is a patois, spelled according to southern
conventions when written at all! The Normans eventually
conquer the North, lending it what glory it briefly has.
Germania is conquered by the Suabians but remains Latin in
speech. Christianity never becomes dominant there, or at
least takes longer, because Julian gets some three decades
to set things the way he wants it there. Thus many Jews and
Manicheans too in Germania/Suabia. Britain initially is cut
loose from the empire like <acronym title="Our/Ordinary TimeLine">OTL</acronym>, but no pagan invasion!
Rather many Christians from northern Germany go there,
bringing with them their &#8216;Anglian&#8217; form of Latin.
<a href="http://hobbit.griffler.co.nz/introduction.html">Brithenig</a> in <acronym title="Mundus Germaniae Romanae"><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/mgr/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with MGR">MGR</a></acronym> too would be a blast!</p>

<div class="footnotes">
<hr />
<ol>

<li id="fn:Constantinians">
<p>There were actually nine males in the
generation after Constantine I (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantinian_dynasty">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantinian_dynasty</a>
).
Even if not all of them survive the possibility that the
empire remains split in several parts is clearly there.&#160;<a href="#fnref:Constantinians" rev="footnote">&#8617;</a></p>
</li>

</ol>
</div>
	Tags: <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/topic/alternate-history/" title="Alternate history" rel="tag">Alternate history</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/mgr/" title="MGR" rel="tag">MGR</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/topic/alternate-history/mundus-germaniae-romanae/" title="Mundus Germaniae Romanae" rel="tag">Mundus Germaniae Romanae</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/roman-althistory/" title="Roman althistory" rel="tag">Roman althistory</a><br />

	<h4>Related posts</h4>
	<ul class="st-related-posts">
	<li>No related posts.</li>
	</ul>

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