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	<title>Melroch @ Random &#187; vienay</title>
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	<description>Random ideas and thoughts of Benct Philip Jonsson</description>
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		<title>The origin of the Borgonzay or Rhodray language</title>
		<link>http://blog.melroch.se/alternate-history/lucus/the-origin-of-the-borgonzay-or-rhodray-language/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.melroch.se/alternate-history/lucus/the-origin-of-the-borgonzay-or-rhodray-language/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 17:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>melroch</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Lucus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Alternate history]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[burgundy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[dialect]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[dieophí]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[vienay]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.melroch.se/?p=147</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[  The first Dieoph&#237; of Burgundy moved with the whole of his
  Vienese court and bureaucracy to Deuj&#243; and most notably
  brought along all his notaries and scribes, who continued to
  write in Vienay, and even took in new apprentices from the Vienay
  area or trained apprentices from Burgundy and [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>
  The first Dieoph&#237; of <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with burgundy">Burgundy</a> moved with the whole of his
  Vienese court and bureaucracy to Deuj&#243; and most notably
  brought along all his notaries and scribes, who continued to
  write in <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/vienay/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with vienay">Vienay</a>, and even took in new apprentices from the <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/vienay/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with vienay">Vienay</a>
  area or trained apprentices from <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with burgundy">Burgundy</a> and Lojunay to write in
  the <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/vienay/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with vienay">Vienay</a> <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/dialect/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with dialect">dialect</a>. Thus the language of the royal chancery
  became <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/vienay/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with vienay">Vienay</a> with a strong Burgundian and in particular Lojunay
  admixture. Each new Dieoph&#237; before his father&#8217;s death served
  as count of <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/vienay/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with vienay">Vienay</a> and brought with him a fresh batch of <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/vienay/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with vienay">Vienay</a>
  scribes, secretaries and notaries at his ascension as duke of
  <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with burgundy">Burgundy</a>. The move of the court to Loj&#250; under the reign of
  the <em>n</em><sup>th</sup> Dieoph&#237; &#8212; motivated by a desire
  to keep a close check on the powerful patriarch of Loj&#250; &#8212;
  could only strengthen the use of this hybrid <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/vienay/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with vienay">Vienay</a>, because the
  Lojunay <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/dialect/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with dialect">dialect</a> was closer to the <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/vienay/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with vienay">Vienay</a> <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/dialect/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with dialect">dialect</a> than the
  dialects of <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with burgundy">Burgundy</a> proper. Inevitably however the misnomer
  <em>Borgonzay</em> &#8216;Burgundian&#8217; became attached to this princely
  chancery language especially after the <em>n</em><sup>th</sup>
  Dieoph&#237; decreed that all courts, and parliaments throughout
  his domain, and the university of Deuj&#243; must use the
  language of the princely chancery. The patriarchal and episcopal
  chanceries soon had to follow suit as well.
</p>
	Tags: <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/alternate-history/" title="Alternate history" rel="tag">Alternate history</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" title="burgundy" rel="tag">burgundy</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/dialect/" title="dialect" rel="tag">dialect</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/dieophi/" title="dieophí" rel="tag">dieophí</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/topic/alternate-history/lucus/" title="Lucus" rel="tag">Lucus</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/vienay/" title="vienay" rel="tag">vienay</a><br />

	<h4>Related posts</h4>
	<ul class="st-related-posts">
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/alternate-history/how-burgundy-became-borgonze-1/" title="How Burgundy became Borgonze, part one (27 March, 2009)">How Burgundy became Borgonze, part one</a> (0)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/writing-systems/the-ajchrip-alphabet/" title="The Ajchrip alphabet (12 March, 2008)">The Ajchrip alphabet</a> (0)</li>
</ul>

]]></content:encoded>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>How Burgundy became Borgonze, part one</title>
		<link>http://blog.melroch.se/alternate-history/how-burgundy-became-borgonze-1/</link>
		<comments>http://blog.melroch.se/alternate-history/how-burgundy-became-borgonze-1/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>melroch</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Alternate history]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Borgonze]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lucus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[burgundy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[vienay]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.melroch.se/?p=61</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There were dynastic troubles for both Burgundy and Vienay in the early 14th century, but there was one important difference: Lucally there was no rule of priestly celibate in the western churches. Rather the rule was like in the OTL Orthodox churches: if a priest wanted to marry he had to do so before he [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were dynastic troubles for both <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with burgundy">Burgundy</a> and <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/vienay/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with vienay">Vienay</a> in the early 14th century, but there was one important difference: Lucally there was no rule of priestly celibate in the western churches. Rather the rule was like in the <acronym title="Our/Ordinary TimeLine">OTL</acronym> Orthodox churches: if a priest wanted to marry he had to do so before he got ordained.  In the Gaulish churches even bishops could be married, and although bishoprics formally could <em>not</em> be inherited &#8212; bishops were elected by a college of presbyters and metropolites and patriarchs were elected by a college of bishops &#8212; in practice bishoprics were often conferred on a son or nephew of the previous bishop, especially if the bishop was also the secular ruler of his diocese.  The most notable such prince-bishopric was Proence.</p>

<p>Thus Herrig Dieoph&#237;, bishop of Meç (<acronym title="Our/Ordinary TimeLine">OTL</acronym> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Dauphin">Henri Dauphin</a>, bishop of Metz) was married to Mary, daughter of Duke Robert II of <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with burgundy">Burgundy</a>.  Just as <acronym title="Our/Ordinary TimeLine">OTL</acronym> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guigues_VIII_of_Viennois">Guighe de Vienay</a> died young and childless and was succeded by his brother <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humbert_II_of_Viennois">Hombert II of Vienay</a>.  Hombert was incompetent and uninterested in government and left it to his uncle, bishop Herrig, and when Herrig died in 1349 the likewise childless Hombert abdicated in favor of Herrig&#8217;s (unordained) second son, also named Guighe (1320-1386), and when Philip I of <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with burgundy">Burgundy</a> died of the plague in 1361 Guighe IX of <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/vienay/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with vienay">Vienay</a> also became Guighe I of <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with burgundy">Burgundy</a>.  Guighe realized that the war over the succession to the throne of France, raging between the houses of <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with burgundy">Burgundy</a>, Normandy and Valois could not be won as long as it was an all on all war with three parties.</p>

<p><span id="more-61"></span></p>

<p>Guighe made explicit the tendency which had been discernible from the beginning by negotiating a treaty with Charles of Valois and Edward VI the Black, Earl of Norþhumberland. The treaty stipulated that Guighe, Charles and Edward would mutually recognise each other as kings of <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with burgundy">Burgundy</a>, France and Yngland respectively and join forces against John IV of Normandy.  In spite of John&#8217;s son &#8212; also &#8212; being an able warrior he soon saw himself thrown out of Yngland and struggling to defend Normandy itself. King John saw himself forced to negotiate a disastruous peace, renouncing his claims to the thrones of both Yngland and France, and leaving his remaining three possessions of Normandy, Aquitaine and Ulster to his grandsons (who were sons of three different fathers and thus cousins to each other), with Richard of Normandy and Richard of Aquitaine having to swear loyalty to Charles of France and Humphrey of Ulster having to swear loyalty te Edward of Yngland.  It was hoped that the three cousins, who had not known each other during childhood, would feel little loyalty to each other, but that hope was only partly fulfilled.</p>

<p>However the peace held the germ of further conflict, since Guighe with the support of Edward, who was rewarded with the control of the Pale of Calis, insisted and succeeded in annexing Picardy, which had been occupied by <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with burgundy">Burgundy</a> since early in the war, to <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with burgundy">Burgundy</a>. Upon the death of Edward of Yngland in 1371 Charles of France attacked <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with burgundy">Burgundy</a>, but it was not long before the two cousins Richard of Normandy and Aquitaine, now laying claim to the titles King of France and King of Aquitaine, attacked Charles&#8217; domain.  Thus the war in France was almost back where it had been at the peace nine years earlier.  Charles&#8217; only consolation was that Richard of Normandy also hoped to take control of Picardy and thus initially had no success in forming an alliance with <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" class="st_tag internal_tag" rel="tag" title="Posts tagged with burgundy">Burgundy</a>.  Thus this later phase of the Humndred Years&#8217; War is called the War of Picardy, and indeed Picardy was pillaged and ravaged by armies of the three rival powers for decades.</p>

<p>Charles of France tried to make an alliance with the young  Edmund of Yngland and have him attack Normandy across the Channel, but Yngland was now embroiled in another conflict: Edward the Black&#8217;s assuming of the title King of Yngland had enraged king Haakon of Norway and Sweden, because the earls of Norþhumberland had since 1066 officially been vassals of the kings of Norway who had claimed the title of King of Yngland in competition with the dukes of Normandy.  Haakon, having political troubles to the East as well as ongoing military trouble overseas in Vinland, had no resources to attack Yngland himself, but Robert II, the new King of Scotland, was more than willing to proclaim himself as representing Haakon&#8217;s interests, hoping to be able to negotiate control of the Orkneys and Shetland in return. There also was a latent conflict between Scotland and Yngland over Ireland: although their mutual desire to oust the Normans of Ireland had earlier made allies of Scotland and Yngland on that front, but Humphrey, grandson of John IV of Normandy and Yngland and since 1362 duke of Ulster as a vassal of the king of Yngland, had cleaverly played out the rivalry between David II of Scotland and Edward IV of Yngland over Ireland.  He now swiftly claimed the title King of Ireland, but was resisted by both Norman and Irish nobles in the south of the island.  His plan of taking advantage of the Scoto-Inglionic conflict and even lend assistance to hin cousins in France thus faltered.</p>

<p>The net result was that Yngland, Scotland and Ireland each became an independent kingdom, with Yngland controlling Wales as a personal union.  In France the borders of 1362 were eventually reconfirmed after decades of intermittent indecisive warfare. The peace was negotiated by the count of Tolosa who in his person combined the kingdom of Aragon and Catalonia.  Thus the domains of the Count of Tolosa, later called Lenguedoc, effectively were withdrawn from French control. Aquitaine also was, through an alliance with <acronym title="The sovereign state of Burgundy in my ATL Lucus">Borgonze</acronym>, able to maintain a state of semi-independence until the Norman House of Aquitaine died out in the 16th century, at a time when <acronym title="The sovereign state of Burgundy in my ATL Lucus">Borgonze</acronym> was embroiled in German politics.</p>

<!-- Lucus -->
	Tags: <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/topic/alternate-history/" title="Alternate history" rel="tag">Alternate history</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/alternate-history/" title="Alternate history" rel="tag">Alternate history</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/topic/alternate-history/lucus/borgonze/" title="Borgonze" rel="tag">Borgonze</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/burgundy/" title="burgundy" rel="tag">burgundy</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/topic/alternate-history/lucus/" title="Lucus" rel="tag">Lucus</a>, <a href="http://blog.melroch.se/tag/vienay/" title="vienay" rel="tag">vienay</a><br />

	<h4>Related posts</h4>
	<ul class="st-related-posts">
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/alternate-history/lucus/the-origin-of-the-borgonzay-or-rhodray-language/" title="The origin of the <em>Borgonzay</em> or <em>Rhodray</em> language (7 April, 2009)">The origin of the <em>Borgonzay</em> or <em>Rhodray</em> language</a> (0)</li>
	<li><a href="http://blog.melroch.se/writing-systems/the-ajchrip-alphabet/" title="The Ajchrip alphabet (12 March, 2008)">The Ajchrip alphabet</a> (0)</li>
</ul>

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